hi Jim

Jim Purbrick: 12:23:00

    hi andrew

Jim Purbrick: 12:23:12

    thanks for getting in touch :-D

Andrew Conway: 12:23:29

    no probs - just sorry I couldn't make it in person

Jim Purbrick: 12:24:30

    so, how do i find the URL for the co2 emitted by a kettle/month in amee?

Jim Purbrick: 12:25:01

    i've set up  wiki page: http://sldataviz.pbwiki.com/Carbon-Goggles

Jim Purbrick: 12:25:13

    with all the questions from the email on

Andrew Conway: 12:25:26

    go to http://stage.co2.dgen.net in your browser

Jim Purbrick: 12:25:44

    yep

Jim Purbrick: 12:26:45

    signed in now

Andrew Conway: 12:27:01

    click profiles

Jim Purbrick: 12:27:12

    yep

Andrew Conway: 12:27:31

    click Create profile

Jim Purbrick: 12:27:43

    yep

Andrew Conway: 12:28:38

    so profile with UID B7BBC6BB115C would represent a person, group or any entity

Andrew Conway: 12:28:54

    click the edit icon to its right, under action (pencil)

Jim Purbrick: 12:29:08

    yep

Andrew Conway: 12:29:29

    descend down to home/appliances/kitchen

Andrew Conway: 12:29:36

    then generic

Andrew Conway: 12:30:18

    then select from the drop down

Andrew Conway: 12:30:48

    hit Add (ignore "valid from" just now)

Jim Purbrick: 12:31:43

    done

Jim Purbrick: 12:32:24

    so, i can see the kgCO2 Per Month

Jim Purbrick: 12:32:37

    is there a way to do this without profiles

Jim Purbrick: 12:32:51

    and to get just the value without HTML,JSON or XML?

Andrew Conway: 12:33:47

    yes, it can be down without profiles

Jim Purbrick: 12:33:52

    great

Andrew Conway: 12:34:06

    but all repsonse are in JSON or XML

Andrew Conway: 12:34:09

    but...

Jim Purbrick: 12:34:25

    <3s REST and CSV

Jim Purbrick: 12:34:38

    (LSL scripts only have 16KB of memory...)

Andrew Conway: 12:35:29

    we have code for java, php (and more) clients

Andrew Conway: 12:35:54

    we could create an app that serves SL with something simpler

Jim Purbrick: 12:36:09

    ok

Jim Purbrick: 12:36:26

    so, the plan is to use a django app

Jim Purbrick: 12:36:38

    to map between SL UUIDs and CO2 data

Jim Purbrick: 12:37:23

    so, when someone tags an object, we could have the django app fetch the C02 data from AMEE

Jim Purbrick: 12:37:37

    and store it

Jim Purbrick: 12:37:48

    so it can be sent to SL as a float in a CSV response

Andrew Conway: 12:38:52

    ok, sounds good

Andrew Conway: 12:39:02

    where will it be stored?

Andrew Conway: 12:39:16

    could it be stored in AMEE's profile system?

Jim Purbrick: 12:39:31

    in mysql on the web server running django

Jim Purbrick: 12:39:52

    it needs to be stored somewhere that can give CSV responses

Jim Purbrick: 12:39:55

    so, not in AMEE

Jim Purbrick: 12:40:26

    the django app will map SL Object UUID to <tags, AMEE URL, co2/month>

Jim Purbrick: 12:40:46

    then you will be able to do an HTTP GET to /<UUID>/

Jim Purbrick: 12:40:53

    to get a single float back

Jim Purbrick: 12:41:01

    for the co2/month

Jim Purbrick: 12:41:22

    or an HTTP PUT to /<UUID>/ to associate an object with a tag and URL

Jim Purbrick: 12:41:34

    so, next question

Jim Purbrick: 12:41:53

    how do people using SL find the URLs in AMEE to give to the SL HUD?

Jim Purbrick: 12:42:03

    do they all need user names passwords?

Jim Purbrick: 12:42:15

    do they browse stage.co2.dgen?

Andrew Conway: 12:42:16

    how about a small php app that took standard AMEE requests and return CSVs to you in a format of your spec?

Jim Purbrick: 12:42:29

    that would work

Jim Purbrick: 12:43:00

    could you build that for us?

Andrew Conway: 12:43:01

    then you've got AMEE's storage system at your disposal (time profiles, stats etc.)

Andrew Conway: 12:43:52

    yes, would be a pleasure!

Jim Purbrick: 12:44:18

    great

Andrew Conway: 12:45:08

    it'll probably please many other folk too :)

Andrew Conway: 12:45:11

    to your other qns...

Jim Purbrick: 12:46:15

    TOYOTA, Prius, 1.5 VVT-i Hybrid, E-CVT, 1497, Petrol Hybrid  0.000

Jim Purbrick: 12:46:22

    what went wrong there?

Jim Purbrick: 12:46:30

    0 CO2/month sounds wrong

Andrew Conway: 12:47:12

    ah, I see you've figured it out

Andrew Conway: 12:47:26

    kettle is very simple

Andrew Conway: 12:47:58

    most profile items have values that needs set, usually just one describing usage

Jim Purbrick: 12:48:25

    that's going to be tricky

Jim Purbrick: 12:48:39

    i'd like to be able to have people fly around SL

Jim Purbrick: 12:48:45

    click an object

Jim Purbrick: 12:48:50

    find it in AMEE

Jim Purbrick: 12:48:56

    paste the URL in to SL

Jim Purbrick: 12:49:13

    and then be able to query that URL to get a single CO2/month value

Jim Purbrick: 12:49:30

    it might be nice to be able to parameterise things at some point

Andrew Conway: 12:49:31

    ok, I see

Jim Purbrick: 12:49:35

    but that sounds complicated

Andrew Conway: 12:50:01

    well, you wouldn't want SL users actually coming to stage.co2.dgen.net in their browsers

Andrew Conway: 12:50:17

    that's really a developer's interface for the API

Andrew Conway: 12:50:37

    it can all be down behind the scenes and so transparent to the SL user

Andrew Conway: 12:51:24

    here are the steps as I see them:

Andrew Conway: 12:51:31

    1. SL user finds an object

Andrew Conway: 12:51:58

    2. we need to determine the AMEE URL, e.g. /transport/car/generic

Andrew Conway: 12:53:04

    3. we need to determine the choices in the AMEE drill down (analogous  to those drop down boxes prior to creating profile items)

Andrew Conway: 12:53:32

    4. we need to assume usage figures, or get them from the user

Jim Purbrick: 12:55:59

    yes

Jim Purbrick: 12:56:20

    how many choices are there per category max?

Andrew Conway: 12:57:02

    usually one or two

Jim Purbrick: 12:57:10

    ok, how about this

Andrew Conway: 12:57:11

    max is for house types - 5

Andrew Conway: 12:57:23

    but again we can cut those down with assumptions

Jim Purbrick: 12:57:31

    you build 3 services in PHP

Jim Purbrick: 12:58:00

    GET /subcategory/URL

Jim Purbrick: 12:58:08

    where URL is the taxonomy

Jim Purbrick: 12:58:17

    so, I say GET /subcategory/

Jim Purbrick: 12:58:31

    you return a CSV of transport,home,...

Jim Purbrick: 12:58:51

    then I say GET /subcategory/home/kitchen/kettle

Jim Purbrick: 12:59:01

    and you return something to say that we've reached an actual item

Jim Purbrick: 12:59:25

    then I say GET /co2permonthurl/category

Jim Purbrick: 12:59:40

    and you return a URL which will return a single float when requested

Jim Purbrick: 13:00:17

    then I say GET  on that URL with a query string giving the current parameters

Jim Purbrick: 13:00:43

    GET URL&kpermonth=1000 for example

Jim Purbrick: 13:00:46

    and you return a float

Jim Purbrick: 13:01:10

    I store the results of the GET /co2permonthurl/ queries in my web service

Jim Purbrick: 13:01:19

    associating them with SL UUIDs

Jim Purbrick: 13:01:26

    then when people fly around with the HUD on

Jim Purbrick: 13:01:42

    I request those URLs to get the CO2 data

Jim Purbrick: 13:02:14

    with the current parameters the wearer has set

Jim Purbrick: 13:02:16

    sound OK?

Andrew Conway: 13:03:12

    yes, overall sounds like a plan

Andrew Conway: 13:03:27

    I might have to deviate from being as RESTful as you describe above

Jim Purbrick: 13:03:56

    ok

Andrew Conway: 13:03:57

    but still offer the same functions, e.g. ?device=kettle

Jim Purbrick: 13:04:20

    i can generate most URLs from SL scripts

Jim Purbrick: 13:04:37

    if we can do the catagory browsing

Jim Purbrick: 13:04:45

    with the subcategory service

Jim Purbrick: 13:04:52

    then i can build in interface in SL

Jim Purbrick: 13:05:13

    which will allow people to browse the AMEE tree without having to go to the staging page

Andrew Conway: 13:05:45

    also, if you store a profile item uid locally, rather than /co2permonthurl/...

Andrew Conway: 13:06:16

    then you get more flexibility for the future as well as easy access to the kgco2 value

Jim Purbrick: 13:06:39

    ok

Jim Purbrick: 13:06:59

    so the django service stores <SL UUID, AMEE profile UID> pairs?

Andrew Conway: 13:07:07

    yes, exactly

Jim Purbrick: 13:07:29

    then the SL HUD requests /<SL UUID>/ from the django web service

Jim Purbrick: 13:07:46

    and the web service redirects it to /co2permonth/<AMEE UID>

Jim Purbrick: 13:07:55

    which returns a float

Jim Purbrick: 13:07:56

    ?

Andrew Conway: 13:08:00

    yes

Andrew Conway: 13:08:20

    you'll also need the profile uid for the user

Andrew Conway: 13:08:51

    to retrieve it goes like this:

Andrew Conway: 13:09:11

    /profile_UID/transport/cars/generic/profile_item_UID

Jim Purbrick: 13:10:20

    so, when tagging objects, I call /profileitemuid/<catagory>

Jim Purbrick: 13:10:35

    and you return a newly minted AMEE UID for me?

Jim Purbrick: 13:10:56

    or even /profileitem/<category>

Jim Purbrick: 13:11:27

    i'm not sure that profiles make sense here, as people are browsing objects in SL, rather than objects they own

Jim Purbrick: 13:11:57

    the goal is to make people ambiently aware of carbon costs as they fly around SL, rather than calculating their pesonal carbon emissions

Andrew Conway: 13:12:30

    ah ok, I see, misunderstood that

Andrew Conway: 13:12:46

    ok, that simplifies things a bit then

Jim Purbrick: 13:12:55

    yay!

Andrew Conway: 13:13:08

    lol

Andrew Conway: 13:13:32

    ok, here's the url for profile-less access

Andrew Conway: 13:13:44

    for example

Andrew Conway: 13:14:37

    /transport/car/generic/data_item_uid/?value=amount

Andrew Conway: 13:15:15

    I'll then return the kgCO2 to you and you store that and no profile uids

Andrew Conway: 13:15:41

    the data_item_uid uniquely defines an object, e.g. there's one for a kettle

Andrew Conway: 13:16:32

    it's the product of making those drill down choices

Andrew Conway: 13:16:57

    so your user sees a car

Andrew Conway: 13:17:15

    url is /data/transport/car/generic/

Andrew Conway: 13:17:46

    I return a CSV of choices, say fuel: petrol or diesel

Andrew Conway: 13:17:49

    you say petrol

Andrew Conway: 13:18:04

    I return a CSV of sizes: small, medium or large

Andrew Conway: 13:18:27

    you choose large

Andrew Conway: 13:18:40

    I return the data item uid

Andrew Conway: 13:18:51

    you can then do: /transport/car/generic/data_item_uid/?value=amount

Andrew Conway: 13:19:00

    to get the CSV with the kgCO2 amount

Andrew Conway: 13:19:22

    you store that locally

Jim Purbrick: 13:21:47

    yes

Jim Purbrick: 13:22:22

    we will be starting with /data though

Andrew Conway: 13:22:30

    yes

Jim Purbrick: 13:22:48

    so people will browse down through the taxonomy

Jim Purbrick: 13:23:08

    then get a UID

Jim Purbrick: 13:23:15

    stored in django

Jim Purbrick: 13:23:24

    and requested when people browse that object in SL

Andrew Conway: 13:24:26

    so you'd maintain a cache of AMEE data item uids?

Jim Purbrick: 13:24:36

    yes

Andrew Conway: 13:24:54

    that's fine

Andrew Conway: 13:25:11

    our aim is to keep data item uids the same,

Jim Purbrick: 13:25:28

    I map SL UUIDs to AMEE data item uids

Andrew Conway: 13:25:30

    but for future-proofing it's recommended to have a way to update the cache of them at your end

Andrew Conway: 13:27:20

    how much do you want to achieve and by when?

Jim Purbrick: 13:27:48

    we have 24 hours :-)

Jim Purbrick: 13:27:57

    starting 27 minutes ago

Jim Purbrick: 13:28:00

    :-)

Jim Purbrick: 13:28:22

    we already have a very similar app

Jim Purbrick: 13:28:32

    which we're going to hack around and mostly reuse

Jim Purbrick: 13:28:38

    slateit.org

Andrew Conway: 13:28:39

    so you need the csv thing asap

Jim Purbrick: 13:28:47

    yes please :-)

Jim Purbrick: 13:28:59

    first step would be data item URL to float co2permonth service

Andrew Conway: 13:29:11

    sure

Jim Purbrick: 13:29:17

    then we can get data item UIDs from staging to test

Andrew Conway: 13:29:26

    I've got the code lying around for that

Jim Purbrick: 13:29:35

    once that works we can work on the taxonomy browsing and UID finding bit

Andrew Conway: 13:30:09

    ok, I'll get onto the "data item URL to float co2permonth service" right now

Jim Purbrick: 13:30:15

    great

Jim Purbrick: 13:30:33

    it would be good to have the data item browsing service done by the end of today

Jim Purbrick: 13:30:41

    so i can ask people in SL to tag objects while we sleep

Andrew Conway: 13:30:44

    will be offline from 3-6ish, so will do my best to get that bit done by 3

Jim Purbrick: 13:30:54

    and then demo it tomorrow morning :-)

Jim Purbrick: 13:31:15

    please add notes and API documentation to http://sldataviz.pbwiki.com/Carbon-Goggles

Andrew Conway: 13:31:16

    then the browsing bit this evening

Jim Purbrick: 13:31:20

    super

Jim Purbrick: 13:31:26

    that would be awesome andrew :-)

Andrew Conway: 13:31:35

    i like a challenge :)

Andrew Conway: 13:31:40

    ok, head going down now

Jim Purbrick: 13:32:11

    talk to you later :-)

Andrew Conway: 13:32:18

    k